專訪鄭俠：港獨旗飄揚 Interviewing Paladin Cheng: When HK Independence Flag is Flying
*The English one is translation of Chinese article. Shall there be any discrepancies, the Chinese version shall precede.
Paladin Cheng has become popular since his meme “Donald Trump don’t trust China, China is asshole” was shared by Donald Trump Jr. When we messaged him to invite him for interview, he responded and started the interview immediately. It was afternoon in Canada and midnight in Hong Kong. We chatted until 5:30 am in HK, when the dawn came. He asked me to leave him the remaining questions then took a nap until 10, and responded to them before setting off for work. His pace is very Hong Kong and hardly Canadian. He is so Hong Kong, and the “Hong Kong Independence” flag he holds resembles him.
記/J：記者Apeiron/ Journalist, Apeiron
俠/P：鄭俠/ Paladin Cheng
記：首先好多謝你接受我哋tohknews訪問。近排你果句Donald Trump don’t trust China, China is asshole紅遍全世界。好多外國商家用你個樣整商品，可惜香港無法例保護肖像權，最多係幅相來自段片，而段片嘅持有人有版權。你有無諗過用你呢句slogan出商品集資，然後支持抗爭？
J: Thank you for being interviewed. Many foreign businesses used your meme to make goods. Unfortunately Hong Kong does not have any laws to protect Right of portrait, the only protection is the copyright owned by the ones who recorded the videos. Have you ever imagined making use of this slogan to make goods and raise fund to support the revolution in Hong Kong?
俠：我唔識搞呢啲野。 況且這些商品只有一時的熱潮，我想所得收益有限。但若因變成商品而限制全世界推廣這meme，這對「反中國」有害而無益。我看還是讓他變成「食菜貓」或黑人問號等meme更長久更有話題性吧。拍片者Avi Yemini相信也是一位「反邪惡中國」的人，相信他也樂見我這想法！
P: I’m not familiar with these. These kind of meme may be popular for a short period of time only, and the revenue is limited. If we restrict people around the world to share this meme for the sake of making goods, it will indeed hinder the Anti-China campaign. It is better to let this meme be long lasting, just like the vegetable-eating cat and black man puzzled with question mark (AKA NBA player Nick Young). The recorder of the video clip, Avi Yemini, is believed to be a guy who is Anti Evil China. Guess he can’t agree me more on this.
J: You had said that you would not join the election of LegCo this year (2020), since a candidate needs helps from many and it’s not your practice. Is the the main reason? After the start of Water Revolution, or known as Anti ELAB (Extradition Law Amendment Bill), what do you think about the elections held by HK government, like the District Council Election and LegCo Election?
P: I am not keen on becoming a politician; I am not proficient at that. I’m afraid of owing others favours by leveraging the connections with them, so I won’t join the election. I like to have hot pot with many. I like bustling with noise. On the other hand, I hate party politics, so I tend to be a maverick. District Council and Legislative Council seats are considered monetary resources. They enjoy a monthly salary of $30,000 (about $5000 CAD) for DC and $100,000 (about 18685 CAD) monthly for LC. These money can help the other activists and it is good to take shares and lessen the funding available for pro China camp.
I don’t think we can make a revolution under the existing system. However, lawmaker is a kind of citizen representative, and this identity can be leveraged in lobbying in foreign countries. For revolution, it is essential to obtain foreign support. It is hard to ask help from foreign countries by commoner, but it is a different story if the same is done by citizen representatives.
記：你講得啱，好過淨係得over my dead body同埋葉劉起機果類人去海外遊說。而且海外一直都有手足幫手遊說，有埋獨派嘅手足作為民意代表一齊遊說，就直情可以用影子政府形式建立外交了。
J: You are right, it’s far better then “over my dead body” (Alvin Yeung, pan democratic lawmaker) and Aeroplane Starter (Regina Ip, pro China Lawmaker) lobbying overseas and representing HK, who are misleading officials around the world on their perceptions on Hong Kong. Actually many overseas HKers are lobbying, the presence of pro-HK independence lawmakers will surely reinforce the efficiency as well as effectiveness. It is good to form Shadow government for foreign affairs, say, with such lawmakers, to make it more sound and convincing.
P: I think the parliament is the final wonderland of Hong Kong from Chinalization. We still have election of the Legco. In China, even a small village’s offical can seize the money and female civilians like a bandit leader. Parties in Hong Kong still need to fight for their votes, it is the final and only right can be found in Hong Kong, we should admire it and leverage it well. People have neither the experience of defeating CCP nor building the HK nation, we should always try to make use of every possible means to do so. I am weak, even you provide me a machine gun, I cannot shoot many Communist Chinese down. Many politicians are as weak as me, they just did nothing in their positions for the past 23 years. Some of them even betrayed us, like Fred Lee Wah Ming of Democratic Party and Ronny Tong Ka Wah of Civic Party. Human factor is the weakest link, not the weapon.
J: If those pro HK independence politicians join the elections, would you support them in promotion?
P: The authentic independence fighters will always lay low and never think of taking part in elections. It would sabotage their effort if I help them to increase their familiarity. The most I can do is ask for my friends’ help.
J: How about those people join the election in suiciding way, fish for Disqualification from government, and provide the rationale for US to implement “Hong Kong Human Right and Democracy Act”?
P: Good, someone did it in the last LegCo election, like Chan Ho Tin Andy, Leung Tin Kei Edward, Chan Kwok Keung James and Lai Yi Man. The more the merrier.
J: Pan Dem accused you of hijacking their protest since you raise HK-independence flag in front of them. On the other hand, the frontier of independence said that merely flag raising is inadequate. For those autonomy fighters, who merely want to increase the autonomy of Hong Kong by diplomacy but not having the title of independence, accused you of fighting for independence without concrete action (armed revolution). What do you think about such accusations?
中共仆街，人人得而誅之，香港人同佢割席本是應有之義，冇人夠膽講香港人deserved to rule by CCP，咁點解香港人唔say no？要民主定人權，講到尾都係主權問題，不爭主權卻在框架內抗爭，怕得罪中共，這是劃地為牢，虛耗光陰。他日中共兵臨城下，血洗彌敦道，中共只會講這是鎮壓暴亂，最多只是內戰，外國欲救無從。
P: They don’t buy HK independence. It may not be a good timing right now; let us incubate the conditions. Everyone disillusions with different paces. For those older generation, just let it be. I raised the flag many times, many activists who are passionate but did not disillusion accused me. I felt sad and go back to daily life, next Sunday I get on the street again and again, since I found the Chinese Communist Party is too asshole. I repeated this process months by months, years by years, like you see this years. However, the oppression from CCP enlarge and more rapidly though these years. People will consider through times, they will think of why we keep on raising the flag.
No matter Pan Dem, localist or frontiers, they cannot neglect foreign support, in terms of either showing solidarity, seeking fund support or weapon availability.
China is asshole, everyone has the obligation to eliminate them. Hong Kongers deserve to cut off with them. No one have guts to say “Hong Konger deserve to rule by CCP”, why don’t Hong Kongers say NO? The basis for fighting for either democracy or human right is sovereignty. Negligence of sovereignty, but simply playing CCP’s game under their rules, in order to avoid irritating CCP, IS SELF LIMITING. IT IS TIME WASTING. If one day CCP sends their armies to Hong Kong, massacring Nathan Road, CCP will only say that it is in the name of suppressing riots, which is their domestic business and foreign countries can help in no way.
If Hong Kong becomes a country, when CCP sends armies to Hong Kong, foreign countries can then send peace-keeping force to help defending. Aren’t Hong Kongers afraid of war? That’s why we should stand with Western democratic camp! Reasons are necessary for foreign countries to interfere, like your actions touching their voter’s heart, the ruling party wouldn’t lose support from their people if they send armies to help HK.
So I show you my will to independence, I did not get affiliated with any camps, then I promote HK independence by raising flag. Our flag raising team has already been covered on headlines of many countries’s press. Hong Kong Independence is no longer news. Take a step back, which country’s independent fighters raised no flags? Three Baltic States and Ukraine were holding in the past, and Scotland and Catalunya have been holding for now. They all have flag sea, I am just a single flag in the long river of history.
J: Yes, you keep on raising flag, many youngsters who even don’t know localism (Anti Colonialism in HK context, against evil CCP) do know HK independence, and they are fighting in the front line. When we were seeing many youngsters fighting in the situation more dangerous then our old days, it’s easy to find that many localists (Anti Colonialism in HK context, against evil CCP), including me, criticised you wrongly in the past. Every role is equally important.
P: Yes, time will tell it is meaningless to argue for approaches fighting for independence. For instance, consider establishing a temporary government, say, with 4 bureaus and 13 departments, we can take up different responsibilities according to our talents. Hong Kongers would be more confident in HK independence if such a cabinet is formed. Hong Kongers don’t need the will to govern, they can just support us, but we do need to have this will and nurture the condition (for independence).
1. Something that I can trust
2. Something that we can trust
3. We have army, lawyer, factories, technology, funding, and we can trust them.
Which stage are the activists for independence in?
J: As you said, there are different stages of HK independence, would you like to name and describe them?
P: There are so many stages. At least people in different occupations should form their teams or parties. The first step of it is to give up factionalism.
J: Do you think the temporary government need votes for legitimacy? How to form it? When those frontiers make their declaration in Legislative Council on July 1, many people on the web said that we should form our temporary government in there. Unfortunately it became 5 demands. Later in September or October, the discussions on the web suggested a tendency to form a temporary parliament (of HK nation).
P: It can be formed in foreign country, no need to have votes for legitimacy in this stage. They can do lobbying job with those pro-independence HK lawmakers. It is not a piece of cake indeed, like rowing upstream. Although the progress is slow, at least the HK politicians can no longer use June 4 (Tiananmen Square Massacre) nor “one country, two systems” to gain support and earn their seats. I have no idea when HK can become an independent country; it needs the evolution of Hong Kongers after they got fed up for being in deep shit multiple times.
J: Which evangelist(s) do you admire in the localism camp (Anti Colonialism in HK context)? Which attribute(s) do you admire on him/her/them?
J: Ma Man Fai, who left us in 1994, is the father of localism (Anti Colonialism in HK context), father of Anti Communism, father of Hong Kong independence), his epoch-making thought influences us.
For those who are still alive, I admire Lee Yee. He is more than 80 years old, but his mind is more clearer and avant-garde then those 80s youngsters who are anti-HK independence, no matter his political articles or the preface of the book “On the returning to UK”. His open-mindedness, clear arguments, thorough understanding of CCP and human nature, makes so many youngsters ashamed of themselves. Aging is not a problem, the stubborn-minded who refuse to self-reflect, advance and improve is the cause of death of Hong Kong. I hope I can act like him for the rest of my life, keep learning and thinking the new things.
J: In you mind, what is the root cause of HK independence?
P: The policy which keep HKG alive is “One country, Two systems”, and it will be shut down 27 years later, in 2047. Even we have universal suffrage at that time, when the policy is no longer in effect, you and your next generation will eventually die, not to mention the system is already corrupted nowadays. Hong Kongers always keep on mentioning “One Country, Two systems”, but who invented it? Deng Xiaoping, the one who killed students in Tiananmen Square Massacre in June 4 of 1989. How vicious he is? Can’t you see Hong Kongers mourned for 30 years? CCP’s Deng Xiaoping is clever, he had foreseen what happens today, everything is under CCP control, so they changed the terms in “the Basic Law” arbitrarily, and appointed those red judges, who are loyal to CCP!
They don’t care Hong Kongers happiness, nor those dead bodies. They just care everything under control.
For us, fighters for independence, we believe in a simple rule: Never trust Chinese. Hong Kongers who are anti ELAB and the politicians, are having similar thoughts like us: they believe in neither CCP nor their government. However those who drafted, changed and implemented “the Basic Law” are all controlled by CCP. Now those politicians, who support “the Basic Law” like those pro-China politicians, are pleading CCP not to disqualify them from being elected. Don’t you think they are self-denying and hypocritical? The clever Hong Kongers knew CCP cannot be trusted and left Hong Kong early in 80s and 90s.
Both “One Country, Two Systems” and “the Basic Law” are corrupted, and they will no longer be in effect after 2047.
HK independence is the only way for Hong Kong to survive.
J: Which kind of help do you expect from foreign countries?
P: I hope they understand Hong Kongers are civilised citizens and Hong Kong is a developed country. Compared to 7 million human in Hong Kong, there are 1.4 billion barbarians in China, if they don’t help Hong Kong, it will eventually become 1.4 billion + 7 million barbarians. I hope the developed countries can help Hong Kong to attain independence, and Hong Kong can keep the East Asia order (TOHK: financial order, since Hong Kong is well trusted with her highly efficient and competent manpower, comprehensive economy, rule of law, the monetary values of Hong Kong Dollar is calculated in terms of US Dollars, geographical edge, international relations), as well as the window of China. (TOHK: since HK exercises common law, where China exercises continental law)
J: Anything you like to talk to Hong Kongers who live in Canada?
P: I am devastated to know Canada suffering from China Virus (Wuhan Coronavirus), I hope every Canadian recover soon. Remember to give pressure to your government for this pandemic, don’t let tragedy happen in Canada again!
Thanks to my friend Alex who is now living in Canada, I wish him happy forever, I will visit him later on. I love Hong Kong, and Canada too!
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